Overview: There are many positive benefits to aging.  Aging is not all about losses.  In this interview, Dr. Young strives to re-balance the perspective on aging and offers encouragement in point out advantages of aging and contributions  that elders offer to a culture.  He offers guidelines for aging well and supports his recommendations with stories and myths.  He observes that deeply rewarding experiences can more than make up for the capacity to do less.

The foundation of his perspective is based on a Jungian viewpoint which values the later portion of life as offering the prospect of greater fulfillment.  Dr. Young notes that as we age we are less inclined to mask or hide our imperfections. We can enjoy a greater authenticity. Aging offers the incentive to stop trying to impress others and to be who we are. The interview is a recommended read for those who realize that they are older than they once were.

INTERVIEW:
What was the impetus for your coming to study aging?

One reason is that I am growing older myself. Another is that I am often invited to speak or conduct workshops for religious groups. No matter the group, the congregations tend to be older than the community at large. As I worked more with elders I noticed that they have different interests and perspectives.

I began to research aging and read the popular books and articles. I noticed that I was unhappy with what I was reading, but initially couldn't identify what was wrong. As I found some of the more obscure books, mostly by Jungian authors, I noticed a distinct difference. That was my moment of epiphany. The popular and better known books and research were in unison. I would sum up the current American attitude toward aging in three words: Don't do it.

Most of the current literature does not deal with aging but rather, it focuses on slowing the rate of physical losses. I view this as meritorious and believe the view is worth much attention. But that was all they had to say. Many of the books cited successes and fame that came to the elderly. I am not saying that those ideas are unworthy. The problem was that all of the focus was upon staying forty. There was precious little about the benefits to being old.

The work that moved me most was James Hillman's book, The Force of Character: And the Lasting Life. He noted that if you see an older friend, you might comment, "You look much younger than your age." The person making the comment may mean well and be trying to make a compliment; but in reality the person is offering an insult. A true compliment would be to comment on something that they are gaining, not on something that they are losing. There is a double side in basically saying to someone, "You don't look like you really are."

Hillman suggested rather saying, "I love hearing stories of what happened before I was born" or "There is so much wisdom that you have to offer" or "I appreciate the perspective that you bring to our conversation." Referring to what one is gaining or has of value is more encouraging and complimentary.

From previous interviews I know that you often incorporate stories or myths to emphasize your point. Are there particularly poignant stories related to aging?

Stories that contain "the journey" as a plot usually apply. Joseph Campbell stated that the reason that the hero's journey is found in all times and cultures is simply that it is the story of human life. The story that I use in my seminars on aging is the Russian tale of Vasalisa the Beautiful. She goes on a long journey through a dark forest to meet a scary sorcerer named Baba Yaga. The story deals with facing our fears and going into our inner life. We emerge wiser for the experience. The tale reflects the long journey to psychological maturity. At each point in our life, we are too close to the immediate details to see the overall adventure. Stories help us get the big picture.

Would you speak about the process of coming to an acceptance of losses so that one may be free to realize and pursue opportunities associated with aging? I know that one of the major issues in psychotherapy and in dealing with loss is to first come to accept reality, or what is.

With aging comes acceptance. The radical self acceptance that many elders attain is a huge reward. With longevity we come to know ourselves better. We become less interested in acting to impress others and conform. We become our own property. The levels of satisfaction can rise even as people are physically able to do less, especially for people who have engaged in inner psychological or spiritual work or a creative pursuit.

The reason the level of reward goes up is that elders know who they are. Also, having more time to spend with a pet or to raise a garden can be rewarding. While by a certain age we are doing less, deeply rewarding experiences can more than make up for the loss. The ratio of fulfillment to frustration can actually improve.

Though I am emphasizing the positive, I do not minimize the losses. Losses are deep and can be very painful. The loss of physical strength and vitality and the loss of loved ones and dreams produce much sadness. The point is that loss is not the only experience associated with growing old.

There can be a triumph of authenticity as we grow older. Often we desire to be more genuine and honest with ourselves and others. Our highest values prevail. Another component is exhaustion. It takes energy and effort to fake it. With age, people are less willing to go to the trouble.

Often people, who did not stand out in the community in earlier years, begin to be noticed. Sometimes they were secretly rather quirky and spent great effort to disguise or mask their quirkiness. At a certain age they turn loose and expose parts of themselves that can be fascinating. Parts of ourselves that we may have hidden for years can be intriguing and entertaining.

In Hillman's book he speaks of the force of character. As we grow older we more firmly establish our integrity. However, another part of this later life stage is becoming a character. A touch of eccentricity can be marvelous and attractive.

Those who have done inner work earlier in life's journey are at a great advantage. Those who have suffered significant losses early such as the loss of loved ones in their 30's and 40's and have had those moments of grief and have had to reconstruct the fabric of life are in a favorable position. These losses often involve a sort of ego death. There is a tendency in industrial cultures to worship control. Those who have coped with setbacks have had to deal with moments when matters were out of control.

 Learning that we can survive losses and reverses brings an awareness that we don't have to possess as much control as we thought, or as the culture suggests. This is a huge lesson. Learning to deal with losses early in life can be a gift in that it can prepare us to deal with the long string of losses which we will experience later. It can help people deal with bereavements with a sense of grace.

If too much emphasis is placed on being as engaged or as sharp as we were in our prime, then aging becomes sad. But if we accept the process, accept where we are, it can be fascinating and, in its way, rewarding.

Would you address Jung's psychological ideas that apply to aging and the latter years?

Jung's model is the perfect psychology for later life. He thought that the first half of life was mainly preparation for the latter half. In the first half we lay the foundation. It is about establishing a strategy in terms of personality and establishing affiliations which involve family, love life and friends.

During these years, we tend to put great energy into making a living. While all of that is worthy, it is just the foundation. When the foundation is in place then the adventure begins. It is then that we usually develop the true, unique aspects of our gifts.

How would Jung's archetypes relate to aging?

The idea of the archetypes, which is so fascinating in Jung's writings, suggests that we each have a number of personalities or agendas or energies. We shift from character to character or role to role. As we proceed through life stages, the constellation of archetypal energies and the pattern that we are drawing on at a given moment shifts.

Among the well known archetypal qualities the mentor, the magician, and the sage would be particularly prominent in later years. Also, there is the trickster who has a wily ability to experience fun at your expense. For example, having a senior moment of forgetfulness can be very amusing if you decide to have a good laugh at yourself. Laughter also helps because it distracts us from the pressing effort to grasp what we can't remember.

The sage archetype reflects a calm quality in a personality. It allows us to detach, if necessary. We have losses, disappointments, and grief in our later years. The ability to experience them and be reflective, that is have a little distance, is a sage quality. We may notice two people at the same stage of development experiencing similar losses. One may be torn apart while another, though grieving, realizes that it is part of the big picture. Our sage energy would be the ability to deal with changing circumstances gracefully.

The mentor emphasizes the great need to pass along our learning and wisdom. It is a marvelous thing to draw on the mentors who have given to us and share insights and skills with the people of the future.

It is not that we develop an archetypal presence. They appear on their own. The task is to find ways to be more open. Archetypes can be welcomed and brought forward. The most effective invitation is to read stories of archetypes. If you want to develop more sage qualities in your personality just read stories with wise old characters. Reading draws the images into our inner lives. That is the first step toward accepting the characteristics of that aspect of our personalities.

You have made several suggestions about effectively conversing with elders such as asking about the past and avoiding insults. Do you have other suggestions?

A major aspect of appreciating elders is valuing stories. It is about cherishing stories for their own sake and not as a technical means to communicate new information. Communicating information is not the only function of conversation. One may have heard a tale before.

 Storytelling celebrates life. Just as you may play a favorite record over and over, stories can be savored and enjoyed. To encourage a favorite aunt to tell a story not only gives them a little attention but it also presents an opportunity to celebrate life.

Often narratives that old persons recount have something to do with their unique perspectives on life. They are trying to pass along something valuable. There are layers and layers to stories. The hearers may think that they know a story but they don't know all that it contains. There is usually more than we originally thought.

Retelling stories can have a ritual quality. To take a narrative and try to break it down and outline and summarize it and arrive at the key elements that are communicated misses the lion's share of what is being communicated. Just as a picture is worth a thousand words, a story communicates more than the teller realizes.

 Part of it can be grasped at the moment but, years later, one may realize that there are more dimensions and greater depth to a story that grandma used to tell.
Stories are essentially symbolic. They are so richly visual we can think of them as mental movies. They are rich sources of information. The words and ideas may only amount to ten percent.

Much of the content is carried in symbolic images. Just as with dreams, there are layers and nuances that are perceived consciously, but much of the significance is at the unconscious level. As we age and experience life, we gradually gain more of the information contained in the story.
Would you comment upon the role and importance of social activity and involvement as one grows older?

There is a tendency to isolate. However a problem is that the staffs of retirement communities are younger. They are often unaware of how much they imagine that their own psychology is present in the older person. They observe an elderly person who lives alone and rush to conclusions. The elder may call a couple of relatives weekly and visit occasionally with a friend or two in nearby apartments. The worker thinks that the elderly person is very lonely. In fact, studies have shown relatively little loneliness among elders living alone.

The point is that the person doing the assessment would be lonely in the elder's position. The error is called psychological projection. The younger social workers are imaging what living alone would be like for themselves. The elder might be active and enjoy watching favorite television programs, reading, taking care of a cat, chatting with neighbors, and keeping in touch with the daughter and grandchildren by phone, and finding it all rewarding.

An old theory suggested that as one ages there is a losing of interest in the activities and accomplishments that one valued more when younger. We spend a great deal of time in earlier years trying to gain others' attention and impressing others about how bright or important we are. That becomes valued less as one ages.

Elders have reported how enormously rewarding creating a modest watercolor painting is and how the one cup of tea is so pleasurable because they know exactly the flavor and type to select. One of the rewards of being older is that we know ourselves better. Limited energy may mean reduced activity, but the increase accuracy of our choices of what to do can actually lead to greater fulfillment, often from small things. It is possible to find ways to savor the subtleties of life which are marvelous. It is not the quantity or how much we are doing, but rather the quality or how much we are enjoying each moment.